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Brian’s notes

Ms Spelman speaks - and so does a Coalition MP.

More current Badger talk as promised. 

I'm always interested when Caroline Spelman speaks.  Here is a new interview :

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/caroline-spelman-her-curtains-are-shabby-but-her-axe-is-sharp-2096267.html

Of course it's print - it's Press, and we know how little they can be trusted to report the conversation truthfully.  But this is essential reading.  It's perhaps significant that this article does NOT feature Ms Spelman shouting about culling badgers.  Her style is entirely different from her (subordinate) colleague Jim Paice - who has become the unacceptable face of DEFRA - having spent the last 6 months constantly telling the Press and the Farmers that a free-for-all on killing badgers is definitely immminent.  It has been suggested in certain quarters that Spelman and Paice are playing Good Cop and Bad Cop, to confuse the Hell out of anyone who speaks on behalf of wild animals.  But I cherish the belief that Caroline is a good soul in a hard place, and is genuinely looking for a way to act humanely and decently, whilst not enraging the sadly misinformed and vengeful farming community, on which the coalition certainly thinks it depends on for support. 

 

 

PERHAPS VERY SIGNIFICANTLY, this week a Coalition MP bravely voiced his disapproval of the proposal to allow farmers to kill badgers. 

http://www.thisissouthdevon.co.uk/news/MP-says-badger-cull-answer-TB-problem/article-2708083-detail/article.html

 

Adrian Sanders has voiced a strong objection to the proposed do-it-yourself cull proposed by DEFRA.  He has pointed out that proceeding with this is in complete dissonance with the declared Coalition policy of acting on scientific evidence.  Mr Sanders is evently very well-informed.  He also puts his finger on the hidden agenda behind the draconian measures aleady in place for cows suspected of having contracted Bovine TB. He says "The Government's approach is clearly a cost-cutting exercise. It could fight to alter the trade barriers that prevent vaccinated cattle being exported, and it could invest in a vaccination programme for badgers."

Save-Me will do everything in its power to support Mr Sanders.  We also suggest that he would be pleased to receive support from any of his constituents on this stance  ... so if you live in South Devon, please write to him - and encourage your friends and neighbours to do the same.  We can be sure that the trigger-happy Farmers Union will be at this minute whipping up constituents to plague Mr Sanders, and try to make him change his mind.  Let us encourage him not to let that happen. 

 

Cheers all

 

Bri

 

 

Thank You

 

 

Dear Save-Me Members,

We are currently changing the format of the social media side of Save-Me and are therefore closing the forum down for the time being.

Thank you to all those contributors who have taken the time to support Save-Me and share their thoughts and opinions with other members. We will be doing regular updates on the Facebook  page so  please come and add your comments and continue to support Save Me .

If you have any comments or further queries please contact us at anne@save-me.org.uk

Many thanks again for your support

The Save-Me Team

A new outbreak of Bovine TB - in Scotland

Save-Me sends condolences to the farmers so badly affected by the new outbreak of bovine TB in Scotland.

Scotland has, until now, been substantially free of the disease, so this is a shock in more ways than one.  This article in the Farmers Guardian gives more details.  

Sixty cattle slaughtered after bovine TB outbreak in Scotland
Farmers Guardian
SIXTY cattle from a fully closed dairy herd have been compulsory slaughtered following one of the worst outbreaks of bovine TB in Scotland for several years ...

It is very significant that in this case it's impossible to argue that badgers or other wild animals can be to blame for the outbreak, and from the point of view of those arguing, as we are, that the proposed British badger cull is tragically misguided, this provides concrete evidence that TB is still being spread in ways other than the much vaunted 'Wildlife Reservoir of Infection".  And that even if every badger in these islands were to be killed, cows would still be getting sick.  

This sentence at the end of the Farmers Guardian report says it all.  

 “The absence of repeated reinfections within single herds, or clusters of disease caused by the same strain of TB, are indicators that a wildlife reservoir is not driving infection.”

Mr David Cameron, Mr Peter Kendall, Ms Caroline Spelman, and Mr Jim Paice, please take note, and ask yourselves if you can still sleep peacefully in your beds.  Your 'pilot' cull of badgers must be shelved.  

Brian 

THE GRAND NATIONAL

Traditionally known as the 'Sport of Kings' the Grand National is now clearly an embarrassment to a nation that prides itself on fair treatment of animals.

This is another example of 'tradition' being used to justify behaviour which is no longer acceptable.  In this gruelling four and a half mile course, over the last 12 years, 20 horses have died on the day, and many more in the first week after the race.  

One might imagine that after the worldwide success of the play and film "War Horse", that it would now be apparent to everyone that these wonderful creatures have feelings and are worthy of respect.  But in this 'sport', horses are treated as a commodity.

Around 18,000 are bred into the ever-decreasing gene pool of the racing industry each year and evidence shows around 5000 are raced to death.  Just over 7000 make the grade; the rest are destroyed or cast aside, many ending up in degrading horse markets, on their way to being used as food.  During the actual races, the horses who have survived the system are openly beaten for human pleasure.  As soon as they stop being money-earners, they are discarded - many destroyed on the spot.  

Surely in 2012 this kind of treatment is utterly unacceptable.  The industry has become a cruel factory farm for human financial profit.  

It is time for Britain to stand up, set an example of decency to the world - and consign this barbaric sport to history.   

Brian May CBE. 

 

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Please note that the comments and opinions on this discussion Forum are not the opinions of the SAVE-ME team.

posted 577 days ago Alison Cooper:

please ignore my post below, i was also drunk as it was my birthday. *reminder to oneself* never get involved in discussions after drinking wine oooops xxx

posted 577 days ago Betina Løvbeck Jensen:

Thanks all, I feel fine now after a day with hangovers, I never drink again...

My friends are meateaters and I did promised myself not to preach, but it was more difficult not to do that, than I thought. Actually I didn't preach but merely told some of the things I know, and I even left out the real horror and the awful details. A year ago I were like them, often buying cheap meat because anything else was too expensive or too confusing. Now I now better but I like to see myself as someone who's not fanatic. It's very easy sounding fanatic and religious about animal welfare - all you have to say is 'but they have feelings too' instantly you sound hippie-like.

I also said that if we start treading the animals with decency and were lesser focussed on meat perhaps things would be better for children as well, that it would be a natural side effect.

Jasmine, OK we can continue the discussion in the relevant thread. Thanks again for all the comments:)

posted 578 days ago Christina Staines:

Regarding the comment that Betina's friend made, I would say that because you can't do anything about one type of abuse doesn't make it alright to ignore another.  If he/she is normally a meat eater (I expect they are otherwise they wouldn't come out with such a remark) the welfare of pigs and cows  is very much something they have a responsibility to care about because the animals are being bred in their name - for them to eat.

posted 578 days ago Alison Sesi:

With regard to Betina's question, I would disagree with Alison as I'd say that the issues are quite closely related - as are slavery, racism and other abuses. This is because it's all about de-valuing other living creatures. Slavery, for example, would not happen (it still happens illegally) without the inherent belief that one group of people is inferior and is therefore destined to be forced to perform unpaid menial tasks for another - or, at the very least, that it's okay to exploit others for profit. So abuse of animals is akin to abuse of our fellow humans because it's all tied up with the arrogant belief that we know best - which, of course, has been responsible for a number of atrocities, from the appalling treatment of indigenous peoples arising from Eurocentric, colonial beliefs to the sheer ignorance shown in the invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq and the wilful destruction of the bushmen's way of life in Botswana - to cite just two examples from recent times.

Furthermore, as we know, there have been many instances of child abuse in this country, even if child prostitution is not really an issue here. But it would generally be hard to do anything about it, either here or abroad. Yet, like animal welfare, child welfare and the welfare of anyone who's vulnerable is a matter of education - leading to the understanding that respect begins at home.  

posted 578 days ago Jasmine:

Betina, I've requested a discussion in Member's Threads for your question because I think it's something that's really important. It should have its own thread. Will post my thoughts once it's approved. Hope all is well!

posted 578 days ago Alison Cooper:

Betina your mates are getting the whole issue back to front and upside down, they really are differnet issues . Enjoy yourself though hun as being wasted is not always a bad thing as the root of problems sometimes happen when drink is involved. iv had a lovely night and I hope you have also. Discussions is the way forward xxx

posted 578 days ago Betina Løvbeck Jensen:

Hi guys and girls

Well, I'm wasted, drunk, sorry for that. But I've had a wonderful evening with some friends at my house, eating vegetarian foods and drinking wine etc. Everyone seemed to be okay with it, it was all girls or ladies if you like... conversations were good and, you know, I don't want to preach, but at some point the conversation was about animal welfare.

Someone said: "How am I suppose to care for pigs and cows when small children is being used for sex, prostitution, somewhere in this world?"...What can I say about it? Obvious, I feel sick when thinking about it but my answer was something like.... well I do understand, but that is one thing outside our country which is very hard to do something about, however, when it comes to animal welfare you actually have an easy choice...don't buy the products. They seemed to agree but still, the misuse of children was an argument overruling anything about animal welfare.

I'm curious, how would you respond to this?

posted 579 days ago Alison Sesi:

Maybe we should all now complain to the National Trust in the light of their reply to me (see 'The Mind Set of Cruelty' thread). I'm hoping to work on formulating a response to them this weekend, so if anyone has any ideas regarding the points to be included, please post them here. If the NT is bombarded with complaints accompanied by factual argument, they may also sit up and take notice. 

posted 579 days ago mark williams:

You had a dream. You shared that dream and now people have taken notice. Congratulations for this Campaigning award, it’s well deserved.

 

posted 579 days ago Chris_Jardine:

Here's your chance to make your point

Do you agree with culling foxes? Email newsdesk@wandsworthguardian.co.uk

This follows the article on the anouncement that the fox cull in Roehampton was stopped by residents and emailers complaining! Well done guys!

Fox off: Marksmen call off Roehampton cull following complaints

6:09pm Thursday 14th October 2010

http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news/8453950.Fox_off__Marksmen_call_off_cull_following_complaints_from_residents/

 

 

 

posted 579 days ago Chris_Jardine:

Yes fantastic, well done Brian for the award for Campaigning For Animal Protection!!!

 

posted 579 days ago roger goddard:

The BBC have reported that the Rinderpest cattle virus has been eradicated after co-ordinated testing & vaccination. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11542653

Can we learn any lessons here?

posted 580 days ago Dana Kubick:

WOW OH WOW!! What good news! Brian will be awarded the "Campaigner of the Year" award by the International Fund for Animal Welfare at the House of Lords on October 19th---so well deserved!

For more information, look at www.brianmay.com

posted 580 days ago Loretta Dalton:

Just a thought but when you log on to either the fb site or on here the petition needs to be in your face, you shouldnt have to go looking for it. Keep up the good work.

posted 581 days ago Alison Cooper:

I Went to the Common's today for the 1st PMQ between David Cameron and Ed Miliband. I had a fab day, thats all the info I can give. I havent got any black eyes and survived hehe.

 

@ Chris i think your amazing, we are just different but thats ok as different can work rather well together. Were all for the same cause and just support in different ways. x

posted 581 days ago Chris_Jardine:

Many of you may have heard that a property management company in Roehampton had planned to cull foxes by shooting them on 13th and 14th of October.

Due to strong objections by local residents and others whom sent emails and phoned in, the cull has been cancelled. I was one of those that emailed and here is a copy of the email I received from them:

This is solid proof that campaigning WORKS!!

Shooting of Foxes in Roehampton - STATEMENT ... From: Edward Levinge

We hope we have included all people who contacted us in the distribution list for this email.As many of you will be aware the shooting of foxes tomorrow has been called off.

Based on the suggestion of West Sussex Wildlife Protection, we have called in the Humane Wildlife Deterrence Company who carried out an inspection yesterday. We will be receiving a report and recommendations. Provided this action provides our client with a satisfactory solution, we will have no reason to call in any other pest control company.

We do appreciate that this has been an emotive issue but hope we have found a solution that will be approved of by all.

Kind regards,

Nightingale Chancellors

 

 

posted 582 days ago Chris_Jardine:

I understand Alison. I was saying we 'Can' cope with the mad Facebook Hunter! that's all, don't be confused. I was backing up what you said actually! I agree with you!

posted 583 days ago Laura Grillo:

Sorry about that. I have not been on the site in a long time and I am slightly confused how to log in and out. Sorry again. 

posted 583 days ago Alison Cooper:

LOL Chris why do you always post in such a confusing way, I thought you were saying that we cant cope with the mad facebook hunter. Im getting sick of saying sorry to you, when I look at your replies I always see the opposite of what your saying. I wonder why that is ? But I hope you understand what I mean in my post, im eager for us all to work together and spread the message and the sooner the better.

posted 583 days ago Chris_Jardine:

Alison, were you refering to me. I don't understand! What are you talking about? Sarcastic? About What!? You've lost me, was there another Chris or has a comment been deleted?

posted 583 days ago Alison Cooper:

Chris I wasnt being in the slightest sarcastic, I just meant that I would offer my services if Brian and his team of moderators needed any help. The proof was in the pudding the other night when the team posted on facebook. Everybody was interested again and its this form of interest in my opinion that needs to be worked on. I dont mind sharing the work load at all if the team want to train me and tell me the do's and do not's so to speak. Im all for sharing the word and if it needs to be done via the book then so be it. I dont care what it takes as long as people become more aware and educated on what is what.  I hope we as a team to be able to all work together, but we do need a platform if even it is only facebook x

posted 583 days ago Betina Løvbeck Jensen:

Please sign this petition, it's about GM. I don't think we should mess too much with Mother Nature.

"The European Commission has recently approved growing genetically modified crops in the European Union for the first time in 12 years! Caving to the GM lobby, the commission has ignored 60% of Europeans who feel we have to get the facts first before growing foods that could pose a threat to our health and environment"

https://secure.avaaz.org/en/eu_gmo/?cl=782698512&v=7332

posted 584 days ago Ann-Marie Roberts:

Found a dead badger yesterday, while out walking my dog. I have sent a message to a local badger group as I would like someone to check they are not being poisoned in my area.

A local only mentioned recently wishing they could poison them as they were eating their vegetables. This being the second badger in the area I am concerned. We have a few farms nearby and a couple of months ago I found a dead cat same area of the field.

I find it so frustrating, I feel helpless. I felt utterly miserable all day wondering what to do.

Will let you know if there is any outome. Ann-Marie

posted 585 days ago Betina Løvbeck Jensen:

Yeah, John Lennon. I miss him too. He was a real poet. I remember the day he was shot, I was 11 and I guess it was my first glimse of the evil in the world. Luckily, no-one can kill his words, they live on forever.

posted 585 days ago Chris_Jardine:

‎"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality" John Lennon. 1940 - 1980

posted 585 days ago Alison Sesi:

There's also a link to a DEFRA consultation site at the end of the article that Adrian Sanders is urging the public to use to make their views known:

http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/consult/tb-control-measures/index.htm

I haven't noticed if this link has been posted here before - sorry to repeat the message if it has - but I'm sure it's worth flagging up again anyway. 

 

 

posted 585 days ago Stephen Humphrey:

Fox hunting and the abuse of animals like slavery and racism belongs in the past.  let keep it that way and persecute any of the upper class who think they are above the law.

I have no doubt the establishment, Cameron and his rich tory cronies would love to see fox hunting back.  Lets make it as difficult for them as possible!  

posted 586 days ago Chris_Jardine:

MPs who signed the LACS pledge against Cruel Sports at the Conservative Party Conference.

http://www.league.org.uk/blogs_entry.aspx?id=194

 

posted 586 days ago Chris_Jardine:

Yes very well said Betina. People are still joining the Facebook page, and beibg redirected here I suppose. It now has 50,700 members!

posted 586 days ago Betina Løvbeck Jensen:

Hi Alison, Yes I kind of miss the FB page too, but at the same time it was a relief when Bri decided to freeze it. It was like driving way to fast and then suddenly hit a wall. You couldn't think and you didn't know what has happened and what was about to happen. But slowly the wall crumbled and on the other side was a much more peaceful place - this new site. It's not FB - it's Save-me. I don't know why it doesn't have a faster puls rate, but one of the reasons why the FB page had a much more steady flow, was because people were in there already, interacting with friends and at the same time beeing active on the Save-me side. You know, multitasking.

To be honest, I prefere this forums slow speed. It gives me the time to read and think and reflect on the issues. FB really drove me nuts, in constently trying to be updated and attacked by the pros. It became an addiction. That I don't miss. But the spontaneity, the freedom of posting Queen-related links and quotes and expressing sweet words in beetween the seriousness- well, I won't forget that ever. I actually learned a whole lot. It was a nice trip,a very special moment in life. It will never come back, so I'll keep it in my heart as a fine memory. I'm proud and thankfull that I've been apart of it. Thanks Bri and 'good old friends'. I love you all!

posted 586 days ago Chris_Jardine:

Yes good one Alison, we now how to deal with people like Nigel Quinn don't we!!!!

Edited by moderator

posted 587 days ago Alison Cooper:

.Hey guys are we not posting here anymore.......what is going on? Hello is there anybody out there. Brian cant I take over the facebook group and employ my own moderators. We are a eager and keen group and we know how the system works. Please consider this its a genuine offer. xx

posted 588 days ago Gail Hamilton:

AS a nurse, I wonder what some of these vaccinations they use on the animals are doing to people, we had battery eggs boycotted in Australia due to a couple of links we found were causing respiratory problems for some, I wonder what effect the drugs the "experts" use on mass vacinations of your badgers which in turn cattle are absorbing through what they're eating and in turn we absorb traces of it as well. 

posted 588 days ago Alison Cooper:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_XnIiWaNuU

Iv just watched this tonight and Im astounded again why is it so important to them. This isnt a new clip, its from 2009 but the mentality of the whole clip is remarkable. Otis and his buddies are on a mission thats for sure. They have never abided by the law. Its made me feel really sick. When you get to the section of 25 mins, its laughable. They really do not live in the same world as the rest of us.

posted 588 days ago Country_Gran:

Don't worry Alison:  If you highlight the link and right click you will get an option to 'go to .. , so we can all access it.

Interesting aritcle - thanks.

posted 589 days ago Alison Cooper:

delete if you need to x

posted 589 days ago Alison Cooper:

sorry i dont know how to make this a click active link x

posted 589 days ago Alison Cooper:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/birmingham-diary-save-the-bullswhales-stags-hares-and-even-the-foxes-2098916.html

 

posted 590 days ago Betina Løvbeck Jensen:

..."It could fight to alter the trade barriers that prevent vaccinated cattle being exported,.."

This is yet another very important thing to fight for, perhaps one among the 5 most important matters regarding Btb. EU have to change this rule. If it wasn't there, things would be very dfferent.

Question of the day: Is it possible keeping a livestock which is 100 % organic or should I say biodynamic? Where the animals is happy and healthy and are allowed to be... cows? A place where they get to keep their babies. Is that possible at all?

posted 590 days ago Charlotte:

PS NT members can vote on-line at www.votebyinternet.com/nt10

I wonder if this 'FONT' group have anything to do with the badger cull decision.

posted 590 days ago Charlotte:

On a related note, if there are any National Trust members out there I suggest you vote at the AGM (and you can do this by post - they sent the materials a few weeks ago) for ANY Council members EXCEPT all the candidates that the Countryside Alliance are supporting! I quote:

"National Trust Members can vote for up to nine candidates for the Council and countryside group Friends of the National Trust (FONT) are recommending people vote for the following five only: Charles Gurassa; Caroline Tisdall; Michael Quicke; Caroline Goodall; Cristina George."

For 'Countryside group' read 'pro-hunters'.

 

 

posted 590 days ago Dana Kubick:

This is the respose I just received from the National Trust to my further email (actually two --I wrote again asking who and how they would monitor the criteria they require for their "successful cull") I posted my email to them here the other day, sent to respond to their "latest communication regarding the issue"--also posted here.

Jasmine had the same initial reaction as I did from that communication--in total, it sounds more positive, so the National Trust just may be able to be persuaded not to support the badger cull, but one sentence in it has been taken up by the farming press as endorsement of the cull. We must may clear our disapproval.

It isn't much of an answer, (and they probably hope my support will continue) but if many of us write, their head office may take notice. The correspondence isn't only being handled by minions with standard replies.

It's been here before and Brian included it in his National Trust thread, but to make it handy, write to: enquiries@nationaltrust.org.uk

Dear Ms Kubick,

Thank you for your email. I have forwarded it to our head office, who may be better placed to respond to your email. On behalf of the National Trust, thank you for your continued support.

Kind Regards,Elizabeth,Membership Department

posted 590 days ago Coral:

Adrian Saunders may come in for some unpleasant criticism from the pro-hunt lobby on the This Is South Devon website, hence I have added a message there too. Thanks Bri for bringing the article to our attention.

posted 591 days ago Coral:

Good news - he is a decent person, and much more in tune with the majority of the British public than our local MP for Newton Abbot, Ann Marie Morris, who is seemingly both entrenched in her pro-hunt views and quite put out by my continued attempts to persuade her otherwise. I am in South Devon and think it's a great idea to write to him and encourage him. Let's hope for more like him.

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